*Improved Audio
Welcome to the Recovering Queen Podcast. The Queen Fan Podcast
This episode we discuss the making of "White Queen" the classic song from Queen's incredible 2nd album Queen II. We discuss the instruments used, the background to the song. The production techniques, how Queen went on to develop their sound live. Freddies Vocal technique (and the Freddie Paradox) We then finish the podcast with a cover performed by Matt, with Jai on vocals.
Don't forget to check out more Recovering Queen on linktr.ee/queenpodcast where you will find our Scorecard and our Karaoke videos on Youtube and much more
*Improved Audio
Welcome to the Recovering Queen Podcast. The Queen Fan Podcast
This episode we discuss the making of "White Queen" the classic song from Queen's incredible 2nd album Queen II. We discuss the instruments used, the background to the song. The production techniques, how Queen went on to develop their sound live. Freddies Vocal technique (and the Freddie Paradox) We then finish the podcast with a cover performed by Matt, with Jai on vocals.
Don't forget to check out more Recovering Queen on linktr.ee/queenpodcast where you will find our Scorecard and our Karaoke videos on Youtube and much more
Matthew Russell 0:27
Welcome to the first episode of recovering Queen, the podcast where we cover a queen song and talk about a queen song. And here are my co hosts, Jai and Ian
Jai Stokes 0:40
That was good man. I like that I got quite excited then I was thought I was about to listen to that thing.
Ian Faragher 0:45
Three blokes talking about the songs of queen, what is not to like on that? Can
Jai Stokes 0:48
I just say before we start where we started, I looked online today, I just did a quick scan and they're about 50 different people's reactions to White Queen.
Matthew Russell 0:59
That's insane, isn't it?
Jai Stokes 1:01
It's just a video of them listening or watching it and then reacting to it. Some of them saying this is the first time I've heard it. Some of them just this is a great song. I'd never realised that the back catalogue was was or certainly the 70s Queen was in any way of interest to people in that measure,
Matthew Russell 1:19
I should say, Well, yeah, but what I noticed about that was anyone doing a reaction video of White Queen in particular was blown away by how different it sounded. But for me, White Queen is how Queen's sound. And the 80s Queen is less how I perceive queen. No, I agree
Ian Faragher 1:38
well, and the whole premise of what we're doing is kind of slightly avoiding the massive songs that everyone knows. And go for some of the more perhaps obscure songs Now obviously, White Queen to a queen fan isn't a particularly obscure song. But to the general public. It clearly is. If that many people I kind of go No way. What's that? Yeah,
Jai Stokes 2:00
a lot of these guys had never heard of it before. I mean, it was really sweet. Actually, I managed to get through about five or six of them. People were clearly moved by it. And I thought it was actually very, very nice that they were
Matthew Russell 2:18
I think we should explain that what this project started with us doing a song on the Queen one, and then doing songs on Queen two. So we've all gone away individually to do tracks. But we decided White Queen, as it began was a good place to start. And it's unusual, because actually, I went away and did my cover. But Jay ended up doing the vocals because I couldn't quite hack it trying to say you're not as good as singer yet ready?
Yeah, well.
Jai Stokes 2:46
Yeah, thanks for that. Put me in it, isn't it? Yeah.
Matthew Russell 2:49
Well,
Ian Faragher 2:49
again, just how amazing Freddie is. And I almost don't think you realise it until you attempt to do what he did.
Matthew Russell 2:58
What was your theory? Jay called?
Jai Stokes 3:00
Well, it was it was a little theory called Freddy paradox. And that means most people can sing a little bit of Freddie a little bit. But there isn't anybody alive that can sing all of Freddie. And by that, I
Matthew Russell 3:14
mean the range of Freddie all three of us went to the tribute gig, right? Yeah, Wembley, great day. And we watched people attempt to do Freddie Mercury and some people did a really good job on individual tracks. Like even Elton was pretty good money on on show must go on.
Ian Faragher 3:29
Yeah,
Jai Stokes 3:30
Elton was good. And Micah was really good. George Michael was epically good. Yeah, generally, you know, you start a song and this is what we found is we've been covering them, and you can mess around with a key and you can bring it down, and then at some point, you're going to come undone, because you're not gonna be able to get up to the top bits. And you can keep moving. You can keep changing the key, wherever you want to change it. And at some point, you're either going to be too low or too high. It's a paradox here, you'll see it you'll see
Ian Faragher 3:59
and what we've realised as well about Freddy, when he is singing insanely high, his voice still sounds rich, powerful, deep, full. And you're trying to hit those same notes guaranteed, you know, your voice is going to sound a bit thin and a bit greedy in comparison. It's just a total phenomenon. Yeah,
Matthew Russell 4:19
yeah. And he's got that brilliant falsetto as well that he uses quite a lot on the early Queen albums. That is just oh yeah,
Ian Faragher 4:25
the beautiful Bell
Matthew Russell 4:26
light, even full voice and shift into falsetto seamlessly. You're never quite sure which ones which because it's so goddamn good.
Jai Stokes 4:34
I would say one thing though, looking at the Hammersmith live White Queen, which I I prefer than the album version. If I'm honest, I think it's amazing. But I did notice he didn't quite go through all the top notes. And I didn't know why it because he seemed like totally in his element.
Ian Faragher 4:53
Well, it's funny when you listen to the various live versions, it does develop, you know very, very quickly over the course. About a year from when they first performed it onto that Hammersmith, which I think is probably the best performance of that song full stop. But yeah, there were those notes that he's clearly chosen not to hit you know that the highest note that was on the album,
Jai Stokes 5:15
would he been touring a lot at that point, as I mean, is that is that a got to preserve the voice because I got another 30 day. Yeah, near
Ian Faragher 5:22
constant touring, you know, early March, early 74. right through to when that Hammersmith was end of 75. They've done hundreds of dates. Absolutely hundreds. You can you can really hear that track in particular development.
Matthew Russell 5:38
I think it's hit and miss whether you're going to hit the note every time if you're going for the super high notes. Simon lebon did it Live Aid where he went for one of his high notes and his voice cracked, and it's, you know, considered an embarrassing moment. So I think maybe Freddie just is being cautious that he's not going for that high note all the time, because he knows that occasionally, he won't hit it. And that's not good enough. So I think he probably stays a little bit safe, or do you think I'm being a little bit?
Ian Faragher 6:06
Well, no, I think he did that throughout the career because there's that you know, the no time for losers bet We are the champions that he pretty much always went for the you know, the lower harmony.
Matthew Russell 6:15
Yeah. Roger steps in loads, doesn't he for those. So if there's a high note, Roger, come in and do it
Jai Stokes 6:21
I think I think maybe if he's been on the cigarettes and the the the booze and what have you maybe thinks it's it's it's not there, but it's just in that performance. He's He's command of his own voice is insane. Fantastic. And so you just think you I'm pretty sure you could hit that if you wanted to.
Matthew Russell 6:46
I'm gonna go as far as saying that White Queen on that Hammersmith version, and a couple of the others is Freddie's best performance on piano of anything he's ever done live. Here's the question for you. Do you think that Freddie when he plays piano on that, there's loads of lines that he's bringing up that were guitar parts on the album? And it makes me think maybe some of those guitar parts were written by Freddy and then played on guitar by Brian, later? Is it that way round? Or is it the other way round?
Ian Faragher 7:18
I think it's the other way round. Because if you listen to those shows, again, how it developed live, which is really well documented, you can go onto Spotify, and you've got obviously live at Hammersmith, where we kind of finish and I agree, I think that is Freddie's finest hour, the piano one that they get second verse, the piano kicks in on the second verse, and then it goes into the you know, the guitar. So the piano is absolutely epic, but it's not and that was December 75. Go back a year, November 74. Live at the rainbow. It's not quite the same. The whole well the whole performance is very different. But the piano isn't quite as developed and then again, at the rainbow March 74 not quite so developed again. So he definitely doesn't it both of them have
Matthew Russell 8:05
that really my favourite bit of Brian May orchestration they're dead dead dead dead. That he does that on piano, doesn't he?
Ian Faragher 8:14
Oh, yeah, he does.
Matthew Russell 8:16
And I'm wondering if that was something that he came up with when they were practising it and in the studio Brian went that has to be like a guitar orchestration thing because it's so good.
Ian Faragher 8:25
Oh, yeah, absolutely. But better on piano than isn't good. Yeah,
Matthew Russell 8:28
well, I love it. I've always loved that the live at the rainbow version is the one that I knew from way back listening to it in your bedroom when we were kids j what the rainbow? Yeah. You had it on cassette or you take it off the radio or something like that. This was sort of roundabout the miracle when the miracle was coming out. Wow. And you had smile as well on the same cassette for some reason. Yes, I
Jai Stokes 8:52
remember that. Yeah, that was wonderful.
Ian Faragher 8:54
What I've been reading about why Korean as well that it's originally a smile track it was written in the that era, which is totally bizarre but it doesn't surface until queen to yet
Matthew Russell 9:06
all because it says that on genius, doesn't it? And I can't find the the source of that is because it also suggests that Freddie Mercury took the name Queen from White Queen. Oh, really? Okay. And I've never I've never heard that story. Oh,
Ian Faragher 9:20
yeah. Well, I mean, it is bizarre. That's why I was confused by because it, it doesn't surface until Queen two. So that recorded it late 73 wasn't it Queen two is recorded. But by that point, they're doing gigs and they've got father to son that playing that they're playing Ogre Battle already. But why Queen doesn't feature live until early 74. So who knows jury's out on that fact.
Jai Stokes 9:47
But But you could also say that he took the name of the band from the first album, or the second now. or black
Matthew Russell 9:55
Yeah, March the place we march. The black Queen and White Queen are supposedly the same story. Freddy was inspired by White Queen to white March the black Queen as the kind of answer to it, because Brian's Brian's is based on a book called The white goddess. Do you know that? No, I
Jai Stokes 10:12
always, I always assumed it was Lewis Carroll.
Matthew Russell 10:15
No, it's close. It's Rupert Graves who wrote this the white Goddess has never been out of print apparently how all European poetry is written about the white goddess. It was originally called the three fold
Jai Stokes 10:27
muse. That's good. I like it. Tell us the more.
Matthew Russell 10:30
Brian Of course like to write songs from books because in the next album, he wrote Brighton Rock and Brighton rocks, obviously, Draymond Green who's Rupert Graves contemporary didn't know near didn't know that and that I did think was was after a sweet and here's another interesting coincidence Rupert Graves was born in Surrey, which is where Brian lives in Wimbledon when it was in Surrey, and Wimbledon is where Queen rehearse so sorry, what was the story of the White Queen?
Jai Stokes 10:57
I got sidetracked there.
Matthew Russell 10:59
It's almost like a theoretical framework about how all poetry is written about the White Queen, which represents the faces of the moon or something like that and how all poetry idolises women through this concept of the white goddess, this is sort of like, you know, one of the big stories of mankind Yeah, so it's intellectualised poetry book,
Jai Stokes 11:20
Mother Earth.
Matthew Russell 11:21
I think he went on to write a science fiction book based on it afterwards who Freddie O'Brian Rupert Graves. which make which makes me think I wonder if Brian ever thought about writing a sci fi song based on a Rupert Graves novel, TS Eliot was not a fan of Queen, either queen or. Yeah, yeah, I don't know whether Graham Greene was I was trying to desperately trying to shoehorn a connection between Brighton Rock and the white goddess. I couldn't find one
Jai Stokes 11:56
I feel like I'm really close to the song No, man. Well, I
Matthew Russell 11:58
hope you are. I hope you are. Now here's my here's my really interesting fact. So the one thing that I tried to do was when I was recording the guitar so that acoustic guitar break in the middle,
Ian Faragher 12:08
the kind of the slightly Sitara one
Matthew Russell 12:10
yeah, the slightly sitar, a guitar break, I had my really old ovation guitar, which I've had for absolutely ages and it's got a slightly sitar sound because the bridge isn't very good. And I was desperately trying to make it sound more solitary by sticking a bit of wood underneath it. And I kind of made it work a little bit but it didn't quite work. And I've always assumed that Brian May plays that on a coral sitter, I thought it was on like a deliberately made you know, production guitar. But it turns out that Brian Mae has got this really old German guitar made in Nazi Germany and he himself took the bridge off and replaced it with some sort of fret wire and then the strings just touch the fret wire and he does so what songs do you think that guitar appears on? Other than just White Queen? Interesting this
Ian Faragher 13:02
oh god what's it jealousy?
Matthew Russell 13:05
Jealousy bang bang on. Yes. Jealousy as confirmed by Brian May so yes, definitely. He plays that same old acoustic guitar that he's modified himself he plays that on jealousy but there's another track he plays on as well.
Ian Faragher 13:19
Now you got me
Matthew Russell 13:20
there sailaway sweet sister.
Jai Stokes 13:23
Real and he got it. It can I just interject here I just want to get the facts right he got this from Nazi Germany not not just Germany from the 1930s from Nazi Germany because I know that they're two different places.
Matthew Russell 13:37
Now III I made the Nazi bit up in the guitar is of unknown origin, but people think it's called a health phrase. haitch a double l f r e d h and people think that it's probably built in the 1930s in Germany. Roses so and you couldn't be bothered to get one for the recording Matt? Find one work out how Brian May made it sound like a sitar? Which was annoying because of course I recorded sailaway sweet sister as well and had the same could have doubled up same problem. Oh, yeah.
Ian Faragher 14:12
Didn't you record jealousy as well? j
Matthew Russell 14:13
Yes, we used it. Yeah, you could have borrowed it for jealousy. Had we not all been locked out?
Jai Stokes 14:18
It might be worth investing at this point. I'm sure it'd be quite expensive, wouldn't it? We haven't
Ian Faragher 14:22
finished covering Queen songs yet have we? Still time because I
Matthew Russell 14:25
ended up doing it on classical guitar and I've never been entirely happy about that. sailaway sweet sister.
Ian Faragher 14:38
Queen to appears early 74. If memory serves, they go out on tour. March only for first time it's performed live first of March night 74. At the winter gardens in Blackpool takes them performed routinely on every tour up until when? When was it last? performed by Queen. And I mean, Queen Queen, Freddie Queen, because Adam Lambert and co they do perform it. But the last performance with Freddie, on what tour?
Matthew Russell 15:12
Do you know? I didn't know that Adam Lambert did why do we earn? Yeah,
Jai Stokes 15:15
it's got to be like 976 or some isn't it? Surely.
Ian Faragher 15:19
Right. Any advance on that map?
Matthew Russell 15:20
I can't imagine them playing it on the news of the World Tour doesn't sound right, does it? So what news the world would have been 78? Right. 77 would have been the last time they played it.
Ian Faragher 15:31
Alright, so Matt, you've really really nailed Queen there. It was played once on the news of the world tour on the first date. 13th of may 78 at Wembley Arena and then probably dropped from the set. Never played again. Oh. And I've listened to a really row people leg of it. And it sounds like to me there are say it
Jai Stokes 15:54
Freddy frost lyrics and they go No, you're not allowed to do anymore.
Ian Faragher 15:58
Well, it is surrounded by is it we will rock you tie your mother down. Death on two legs, then White Queen, and then let me entertain you. So quite a dip in energy right at the start of the gig that perhaps wasn't working. But they didn't replace it with anything either. It was unceremoniously dropped after the first day on the news of the world tour.
Matthew Russell 16:17
It doesn't really fit the Queen news. The World Energy does it Now. Now.
Ian Faragher 16:22
Absolutely not.
Matthew Russell 16:22
Bear in mind that punk was out at that point.
Jai Stokes 16:24
Now there's still a little bit proggy isn't it? proggy and fairies sort of thing?
Matthew Russell 16:28
Yeah. What would you call it? Would you call it art rock?
Jai Stokes 16:31
So fantasy rock in a way?
Matthew Russell 16:33
It is, isn't it? It's like a weird genre. It's very Yeah. Is like yes, isn't it? It's got that kind of Yes.
Jai Stokes 16:38
Yes.
Matthew Russell 16:39
Yeah. It's got a kind of no saying yes. Oh, who know the who that that was there. They were sort of more rocky at that point.
Ian Faragher 16:46
So you, you cook this one? What have you learned from covering the song?
Matthew Russell 16:52
I'd say the big mystery that I had was why is it so noisy at the beginning, you've got that kind of over everything right at the beginning. It's actually the main guitar riff is almost lost. I think that's never been punchy enough for me on the record, it's slightly improved with the remasters. The reason why all that noise exist is because you've got that first he, he is just doing that with Ben's with loads of compression on so that it stays at the same volume. And because there's loads of compression, the noise floor comes right up into the mix. And so when I was doing it, I was thinking, I wonder if I'm gonna have to do that noise. And I ended up getting even more noise when I was trying to do it. So I ended up having to play on slide with a slide rather than bending because I just couldn't get my guitar to sustain enough.
Ian Faragher 17:43
Is that right? It's Ben's and not slides, right? Fascinating.
Matthew Russell 17:46
Yeah, so he's, he's bending but I did it with slides. Right? Because it was the only way I could get the sustain and get rid of the noise that was a bit of a pain also that guitar is actually harder than you think to play as well. It's got a kind of inner working around the fingers that you kind of have to just get right and that's what I love those live performances how Brian gets it right all the time. As
Ian Faragher 18:10
we live the life that main guitar is just stunning.
Matthew Russell 18:13
And and his solo and his solo where the where the sitar bit is live is just so it's so bad. It's so painful.
Ian Faragher 18:22
I've been listening to that solo a lot. And it seems to me like unlike probably 90% of Brian's solos, it seems like a true improvisation that for once in one bit of one song. We're not singing along to the guitar solo. It's like a genuine, solo not to be repeated again. Okay, there's themes that you know, plays, but it is a genuine improvised guitar solo, which Brian doesn't seem to do.
Matthew Russell 18:49
Yeah, and it's done in two takes as well. The one thing that I didn't realise like when you play it, you've got it, you've got that the sitar part and you think it goes all the way through but it clearly breaks that does when it goes that really high note coming back down. You couldn't you couldn't play it. So it's done in two takes. So he's done two improvisations, it does fizzle out at the end you like you said all Brian May solos never fizzle out loads of guitarists do like like their guitar solo, and it always ends really disappointingly. Whereas the one thing that Brian Mae does is he always ends a solo with a really neat little flourish or or something that's really cool, but it doesn't on that solo, he doesn't really do it but then it does go into the orchestrated section which absolutely ages to do. And a lot of it is getting the guitar sounds right and so that they kind of cut in or haven't got right but it's it's really interesting. I think it's probably orchestral II that their most complex song because it's got counterpoint and stuff like that all the way through. It's really good.
Ian Faragher 19:53
And when you did it did, did you do the original key or was that just impossible? No,
Matthew Russell 19:58
I did it in the original key because it All the guitar parts would be impossible, which of course then snookered me when it came to doing the vocal in step J. Yeah. I don't know why, Matt, because I think we've got the same range. Yeah, but my voice just sounds so lame in that range. I mean, I might give it a go now that I've seen because the great thing about this project has definitely improved my voice, but your vocal performance is actually kick ass. Despite your protestations, I think it's really nice.
Ian Faragher 20:26
It's going to be one of the songs that Freddie sings the lowest in surely the verse, the other verses and certainly the start. They're really, really low for Freddy. And then obviously, it goes incredibly high. I wouldn't be surprised if it has got the biggest range of many Queen songs. Why queen?
Matthew Russell 20:44
Yeah, that
Jai Stokes 20:45
was one thing that I that really struck me actually sent to the live at Hammersmith is just the dynamic range. And that was kind of it made me miss that in lighter Queen, when I was thinking about some of the tracks that I really, really love in the early days. And it is that dynamic range. It's like, we're going to start off here and we're going to go up there, but then we're going to just suddenly stop and just bring it down for a little bit before it tells a really lovely story all the way through it in a way that some of the songs of latter years didn't I think, and
Ian Faragher 21:17
again, I think if I'd really recommend you listen to the Hammersmith 175 and the rainbow ones a year before 74 and see the difference in the in the two performances. It's quite profound. Use a lot more Bell like a lot more fairy like Hammersmith 75 then he was at Main fairy like as in Well, he's got that beautiful light vibrato at Hammersmith. 75 when he's doing what the White Queen, it's like dancing all over the place. He's got these beautiful, little improvisations of working round the note whereas at the rainbow the year before it's a bit more like the album is if over the course of the year he's they've well as a band that they're all off the scale good Hammersmith they've really learned how to you know how the song should actually sound
Matthew Russell 22:06
at Rogers drums are Ace on that as well, aren't they? Oh,
Ian Faragher 22:09
yeah. Well, I mean, you listen to again, March 74. The rainbow Rogers really busy the whole way through as if he's he didn't give the song space. He's having to fill every every minute actually deacons Ace on that he's playing some really improbable high notes as you always do.
Matthew Russell 22:26
Yeah. Well, I mean, let's just stop to praise Deacon. Deacon is always the king of taste is never overplaying. He's always doing something. And that that is the one thing that came from this recovering Queen,
Ian Faragher 22:38
that john Deacon is the greatest bassist of all time.
Matthew Russell 22:43
He's just putting in the work. And it's just the perfect baseline all the time. slightly unusual in the pocket. Great sound everything about it's really good.
Jai Stokes 22:52
Yeah, yeah, you don't realise you I mean, unless it's an obvious like another one bites the dust or dragon attack or something, you don't really notice. Some of the base pain that he's doing that is holding the entire thing together. And I think that was what was lovely for me is learning some of those baselines and going, Wow, and actually, I could learn them because some of them are so melodic, that they stand alone as a separate melody or a counter melody to what's going on. And so they're actually relatively easy to learn because it's just like, you know, the tune because it's just there, isn't it in the construction, brilliant,
Ian Faragher 23:28
do have to concentrate. You can't just say, Alright, I know the guitar chords. Now I'll rattle off the baseline. You've got to go back you got to listen to what you did think like Deacon. You know, it's like, second verse. He's not going to be doing the same as he was doing on the first verse. He's gonna be up here, and they'll definitely be a little weird. No way. You're thinking what on earth? I remember in covering hammer to fall on on that. Oh, no. Oh, no bit. It plays two different notes. If you don't play it like he played it. It doesn't sound nearly as good. Absolutely fascinate just two notes on the second Oh, no. of hammer to fall,
Jai Stokes 24:03
as you say and think like, Deacon, you won't go far.
Ian Faragher 24:06
I think like they can play the bass. Yeah,
Matthew Russell 24:08
absolutely. He puts in real weird subtle bits of timing as well for a rock band. Because Queen we're a rock band, especially in the 70s like a sort of Led Zeppelin those kind of things. JOHN Deacon and Roger Taylor don't fall into that trap of doing the where the rhythm section thing and kind of trying to lock in and stuff. It's almost like you don't really talk about the rhythm section of john Deacon and Roger Taylor, do you?
Ian Faragher 24:31
No, not at all. No, no, no,
Jai Stokes 24:32
he's more orchestral than that, isn't it? Yeah. They're doing wait way more than just holding it together. Yeah, that they're adding dimension. They're adding breadth. They're adding depth. Yeah. Melody. syncopation.
Ian Faragher 24:45
was rocking like motherfuckers Yeah,
Jai Stokes 24:47
exactly.
Matthew Russell 24:55
Freddy in the 80s. That kind of live at Wembley, Freddy Singing White Queen wouldn't work. What's your
Jai Stokes 25:05
what's the subtlety? Isn't it is the subtlety and dynamics again that he has in that period. So he's a stadium Sing out an eight is needed by that point and the best in the world at it. Would you have the subtlety to own in the same way? I don't know.
Ian Faragher 25:20
They did lap of the gods revisited back then. But that's an hour and out rocker really, isn't it? Okay, the verses a bit delicate, but
Matthew Russell 25:26
it's almost their stadium song, isn't it?
Ian Faragher 25:29
So yeah, the lap of the gods, you know, on those latter tours, they really did drop the early stuff, didn't they? And went for their stuff that works in a massive Stadium, as you say, Freddie was the best in the world,
Jai Stokes 25:40
you know? And fair enough. Really, if you're going to go along to a gig, you want to be singing along with the band and having a fantastic experience. I mean, you would I mean, I, I would still have a fantastic experience. I'm sure most people would anyway, which is different, isn't it, you're a participant in the latter years, maybe more so then observing great music, I don't know if
Ian Faragher 25:59
I personally would have preferred to have heard White Queen then tear it up. I don't know. I don't know about how many other Queen fans would agree with me they're far if you know, given the to account. I'm all for a rocker. I'd like a little bit on the muddy production, like someday, one day was incredibly difficult to do. Because nowadays, you get such clarity of recording very easily. Whereas a lot of the song is in that kind of muddy warm atmosphere that's almost impossible to to reproduce now. You know, same with drowse as well. This lovely kind of warm wall of mush. Talk about that
Matthew Russell 26:40
map. The one thing that I thought I was quite good at on this was to try and find that Roger Taylor drum sounds you saw on the first album, they're big and obviously don't have button heads, concert Toms or whatever. So they kind of big sounding and they get tighter and tighter as you get from album to album. I would say like the best drum sound that you ever achieved is on Night at the Opera. Like the drum sounds on that adjust so ridiculously good. Because I've never ever heard Tom's cut through a mix like they do on night to the opera. I reckon it's almost impossible to produce isn't Isn't that good? ever again.
Ian Faragher 27:18
Isn't the room though, though? They were all like with a finger on the on the mixing desk when they were mixing it. And they were all just pushing their own thing up at the right time. Yeah, that's
Matthew Russell 27:27
not a rumour. They definitely did that. They all had their fingers on their own mix. I don't know that. That's that uncommon at the time. Yeah, because you obviously didn't have automated mixes. It's actually quite nice for everyone to sort of go Oh, yeah, actually, I'm a little bit loud there. I'm a little bit quiet there and so look after their own thing, because you have to be super pro because the the one thing you do is kind of keep nudging yourself up.
Jai Stokes 27:51
What I was gonna say I was gonna say everything I've ever read or seen a bad queen is that it Freddie always goes on, you know, refers to their egos, though I can't imagine them dragging it down too much.
Matthew Russell 28:04
Well, apart from john Deacon and Matt may be why john Deacon baselines and never mixed to the front. Yeah,
Jai Stokes 28:12
maybe that is it. Maybe always john deacons base suffered a little bit because he's a little bit shy with this idea that I didn't I don't think that theory when you see what was they were watching the news of the world thing. Recently. You saw Freddie at the desk very much so and very interested in the mix. But you know, I didn't see anybody else there.
Matthew Russell 28:31
You're right. I don't know how much of that kind of is. Because I would imagine that a lot of the time particularly by news the world Freddy was just going going to a nightclub and leaving the mixing to whoever was doing news the world which was who? Mike stone and Queen. Yeah, Mike stone is now
Ian Faragher 28:47
I think it's particularly noticeable out that fader thing on jazz, particularly the drums. It's like all the fills, just kind of jump right out. Yeah. And then they brought right back again, not necessarily a bad thing. But
Matthew Russell 28:58
I did do a bit of that on White Queen. So some of the sort of fillings. I did do the automated fade for summit so that the toms come in your face, because they're so important to hold the whole song together.
Ian Faragher 29:11
Great. It's a great job. For
Jai Stokes 29:12
me. That's all about the dynamics again. Yeah, you know, and so my idea of constructing a song up until doing this project was that you have everything playing all at the same time. And it feels very pedestrian. So the fact that you have got the suddenly the guitars coming out really like then it's dropping back and then the drums are filling in really loud and then dropping back and then you'll have a baby and doo doo doo doo. You know, for me, that's what makes it so great. And the music so great. And in the construction of it in a way that I never realised that you could construct a song like that and it would it would all hold together. So for me, I feel that that's it wasn't then pushing up the faders because it will This is my bit. It's just that's the way that song works best. So I mean,
Matthew Russell 29:57
yeah, well, I'm sure if they got to the end and Freddie would turn around and say, No, Roger, you put your drum fill too high in that bit. Let's start again. I mean, there has to be some quality control. It's not like they only have one run at it. And it's clearly Freddy, isn't it? When you watch documentaries, clearly Freddie Mercury is the guy that's kind of really the producer of Queen out of Queens. Uh,
Jai Stokes 30:20
he's that's who you see. Anyway, he's only present, of course, you know, documentary and things can be edited in such a way and so on. But that's who you see, with the conductor, you know, as the conductors hat on definitely who you see,
Matthew Russell 30:33
he's got that. Yeah, he's got the conductor, hasn't he? Pretty much. And I'm sure there's times where he's at the studio where Brian's doing it, or I doubt john does it very often. But apparently john can be very, very stubborn. But who knows
Ian Faragher 30:47
when he when he needs to?
Jai Stokes 30:48
I think all four of them would have had to then you don't you don't produce music like that by rolling over? Do you fight for something's great, you fight for it and make people believe in it, I suppose.
Matthew Russell 30:59
Now, but you're right. Very few bands have the control over dynamics that Queen do. Like most bands understand you can be soft, and then you can go heavy Nirvana. But very few bands do that thing of going medium and then back down. And then it's almost like the whole song is breathing in and out as it goes through. And virtually no band does it as well as Queen, Queen as sort of almost classical on their ability to use dynamics, aren't they? I can't think of many bands off the top of my head and come anywhere near close to Queen's ability.
Ian Faragher 31:33
Well, it goes back to what you what we said at the top about, you know, the Freddie Mercury Tribute Concert. There was a myriad of singers there who will did one thing very well. George Michael perhaps the exception it is everything very well. But, you know, James Hetfield was fantastic at doing that one song, but he couldn't do it all and I don't think there's there is a singer that Freddie you know, Freddie could rock he could do the the the balance he could do jazz he could do anything, all everything. I think that's the advantage Queen had.
Matthew Russell 32:02
I was once a treble horn master class and he was with godly Kevin godly and he was sort of saying that 10 cc were just as good as Queen. It's just that they didn't have Freddie Mercury on vocals.
Ian Faragher 32:16
Fair enough.
Matthew Russell 32:16
But actually I don't think you were as good as Queen even as songwriters must be very annoying if you're in a band and you don't have Freddie Mercury as you're saying
Ian Faragher 32:25
to our listeners out there. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Or have we said things that are
Matthew Russell 32:30
totally outrageous if you want to get in touch we are on Twitter at recovering Q and on the web at recovering Queen co.uk
Ian Faragher 32:39
so here we go taken from Queens second album queen to the absolute classic White Queen as it began as covered by Matt with Jay on vocals.
So sad her eyes smiling dark eyes
So sad her eyes as it began
On such a breathless night as this
Upon my brow the lightest kiss
I walked alone
And all around the air did sway
My lady soon will stir this way
In sorrow known
The white Queen walks
And the night grows pale
Stars of lovingness in her hair
Heeding unheard pleading one word
So sad my eyes she cannot see
How did thee fare what have thee seen
The mother of the willow green
I call her name
And 'neath her window have I stayed
I loved the footsteps that she made
And when she came
White Queen how my heart did ache
And dry my lips no word would make
So still I wait
My goddess hear my darkest fear
I speak too late
It's for evermore that I wait
Dear friend goodbye
No tears in my eyes
So sad it ends
As it beganSo sad her eyes smiling dark eyes
So sad her eyes as it began
On such a breathless night as this
Upon my brow the lightest kiss
I walked alone
And all around the air did sway
My lady soon will stir this way
In sorrow known
The white Queen walks
And the night grows pale
Stars of lovingness in her hair
Heeding unheard pleading one word
So sad my eyes she cannot see
How did thee fare what have thee seen
The mother of the willow green
I call her name
And 'neath her window have I stayed
I loved the footsteps that she made
And when she came
White Queen how my heart did ache
And dry my lips no word would make
So still I wait
My goddess hear my darkest fear
I speak too late
It's for evermore that I wait
Dear friend goodbye
No tears in my eyes
So sad it ends
As it began